Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. And why would they what. I don't know if she still is. It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. State officials have said, over and over in recent years, that the eastern mountain lion has been completely wiped out from the Northeast. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. The experts' take on what happened last Saturday when a mountain lion killed one cyclist and injured another outside of Seattle. You know interactions are pretty unusual. The last documented individuals in the entire Northeast were killed in New Brunswick , Canada, in 1932, and Maine in 1938. The evidence for the 1874 cougar is so hard that it's held in a display case in the State Museum of . So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Artculos cientficos; Artculos de divulgacin; Menu Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Thanks for a great thanks. What's going on. And you know all that. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. For all the men out there that don't realize it. Thank you. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. . So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. It was in the spring flash kind of early summer and my wife looked at you look at the size of an adult bear and we were up in arms. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. The one confirmed case, sometimes referred to as the " Connecticut Mountain Lion " happened in June 2011 when an SUV struck and killed a cougar in Milford. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. SYCAMORE, Ill. (AP) A mountain lion that was struck and killed last weekend along a northern Illinois highway will be analyzed by biologists seeking to uncover the rare animal's origins, state . Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Yes. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. Why are there so many false positives? Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! What Really Caused Washington's Cougar Attack. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. New Hampshire Public Radio | I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. A young male cougar weighing about 40 pounds was shot and killed this week near Whiteclay, Nebraska. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. There was a lot of DNA evidence. Your support makes this news available to everyone. The cougar is also commonly known as mountain lion, puma, mountain cat, catamount, or panther. It's bigger but bigger and better world. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. May 18, 2012 Mountain Lion Killed In Conn. It's listed as population of least concern. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. for some excitement. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. The report came in from a conservation officer. I mean they're a survivor. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Based on this blurry photo and pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was likely a mountain lion. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. They don't know the direction they're going. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Oh you saw him online. Okay. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. John. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. #4. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. Well let's talk a little bit about that. The next day I crossed the river and took pictures of a paw print he left behind . Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Can we go to the site. Thank you very much for listening. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. MicroBios. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Right. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Can you look into this picture. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. I'll send it to you. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Is that typically what was happening there. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. And so. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game last week killed a mountain lion that entered a Hailey family's chicken coop, marking the third time the agency has killed a mountain lion in the Wood River . She is renowned for tracking. And they were using all the habitat. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. It was a 3:45 pm on the east side of the river . Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. Really appreciate it. So do they. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. He was just walking along the river then went up into the woods . There's no attraction. They kill big animals. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. More recently, in 2011, a mountain lion roamed Connecticut before being hit and killed by a car. The sub-population in Florida is known as the Florida panther . Let us know your story and share your photos! Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. We want answers. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. Give today. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. I can't. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. May 23 . There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. Novartis sold $1.1 billion worth of Gilenya in the U.S. last year, a 19% drop from 2021 that was caused in part by generic competition, according to . Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. Right. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. The New Hampshire lion has become something of the state's own Big Foot, commonly discussed and rumored but never confirmed; at least, not since the 1850s, when the last mountain lion in the . Just. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. Do they travel. So let's let's go to the phones. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. Seems reasonable! Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Mountain lion DNA was recovered from a Petersham, Mass., close to the New Hampshire border, after a 2016 incident in which a horse was injured. No that's a little bit outside the range. Thank you very much for being here. No I saw a camel. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. Osga's group of volunteers sent hair samples. Caller: I do. There are corollaries in other states. He said matter of fact I do. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. So one thing I'll add. Well they are the same. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Your support makes this news available to everyone. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. Caller: I have yeah. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. But those who called the New Hampshire Fish and Game officer were told the last time a mountain lion was seen in the state was in the 1850s, and it's unlikely they have made a return. And those are not the same things. Peter Biello: Wow. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. The last Massachusetts Mountain Lion was killedaround 1858. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. I think that you probably are. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. Caller: Oh yeah. Sean McDonald. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. The sightings have not been confirmed; in fact, there have been no confirmed mountain lion sightings in New Hampshire since one was shot and killed on the seacoast in the 1850s, said Patrick Tate . Right. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. When the federal Endangered Species Act came along, the Eastern Cougar (Puma concolor cougar), the subspecies of Mountain Lon ti hat orgi inally occurred So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Absolutely. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. It's you know I recognized their report and. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. According to the Nebraska Game and Parks report, a homeowner heard growling coming from underneath his porch while working outside. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. Does not test random Scouts. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. So. This is the exchange. Thanks very much. That's too big for Bobcat. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. Yeah I did. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Peter Biello: Yeah. Or years or so. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? It was determined that Mountain Lion came from the Dakotas across the Northern part of our country . These were normal everyday folks. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Something along those lines. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. They peaked in . Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. "There is a very low possibility of seeing them in the. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. So so. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Deer manages to free itself from the claws of a mountain lion in Alpine, California. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. Caller: Yeah. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. 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